Seems to be hate on both sides, and I consider myself to be far left myself.

@Carey Schug: '...hate on both sides...'

political BS, not hate, on both sides...who do liberals (DEMs) hate as some GOPs hate BO...and GOPs condone BO-hate by their silence...thus/so

BO-hate provides the OK for the ignorant (eg, believe sikhs are muslims) extremists to act on their hate...and the NRA greed provides them free access to tools (military weapons) to act on their hate...

??? How is that, inderjit? Let me get this straight ... Obama reduced taxes for all of us; Obama supported a plan that not only lets uninsured get affordable insurance, but that also reduces the costs of insurance for everyone else, too; Obama got the enemy that no one else could find ... and you say he's 'divided the country'? Meanwhile, GOP has not achieved a single thing in Congress - they publicly stated that their only goal is stop anything the president is for. Who, then, is responsible for "division"?

The President has done everything in his power to bring this country together. It is the Republicans who out of desperation have divided this country. They have attacked Latinos, Blacks, Women anyone that isn't rich or white and you have the nerve to blame Obama. You cons are the biggest enemy of this country by accepting down right hatred spewed on fellow Americans. The hate has been spreading in this country since Sarah Venom Spewing Palin was elevated to queen bee. Statement coming out of Bachman's dumb mouth create mistrust and hate. I haven't heard ONE WORD coming out of Obama's mouth OR THE Democrats that have provoked the hatred being spewed by the Evil-Angels and the mushroom drinking party.

President Reagan, t that is, who started the "trickle down" lie. and restarted class warfare.

@Carey Schug: '...President Reagan, that is, who started the "trickle down" lie. and restarted class warfare'

RR may have believe the lie...as do many conservatives...and doubt the intent was/is to divide...

regardless of intent the result was to divide...that road to hell is paved w/ good intentions proved again...and

'trickle UP' (1% : 99% divide) did begin with RR...the destruction of the middle class did begin with RR...irony of irony: .many po and middle class folks continue to vote for these policies.

RR and conservatives should have looked more closely at what the same (very similar) GOP policies led to: the 1929 great depression (strike 1)...

today's GOPs should consider 2008 great recession (strike 2) confirmed 'trickle UP', voodoo, economics DONT work...confirmed the failure of these policies.

hope/pray our country doesn't have to suffer strike 3 before GOPs get it...

I know you think that it's important that we don't discuss the violence, particularly gun violence, that is advocated by the increasingly hateful rhetoric coming out from the right until the victims families have time to mourn, but when they come so often when will we have the time? Or are you saying that many in the the GOP including Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michelle Bachman, etc DON'T advocate violence?

This IS GOP culture.
http://www.ar-15shirts.com/

My favorite... http://www.ar-15shirts.com/WHEN-ALL-ELSE-FAILS-VOTE-FROM-THE-ROOFTOPS-AR-15-T-SHIRT-AR-15-GUN-T-SHIRTS-FOR-THE-GUN-ENTHUSIAST.HTM

Yeah, blaming them IS getting old. It's time for them to be responsible for what they say. The right has a growing culture problem and those t-shirts are an example of that. Disinformation and outright lies from Fox News and other right wing media outlets is an example of that, and that the right public doesn't even care is a HUGE and scary example of that. The increased rhetoric by the gun lobby on issues that aren't second amendment related are an example of that.

Occupy, for what it's worth, COULDN'T advocate violence; they didn't have a spokesperson. You ask me to specify but I ask you to do the same. The huge majority of those 3000 arrests were non-violent offenders breaking "trespassing" laws in public spaces, far less than 1% were violent and there was one death.

Here is a right wing link to the arrests thus far. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/282993/occupy-wall-street-blotter-nathaniel-botwinick

Do you really need links to Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, Bachman, etc advocating violence? I mean it's really, really well documented. I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous, lets put rat poison in Justice Stevens creme brulee, I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus, Head shots, head shots... Kill the sons of bitches, The second violent American revolution is just about that far away. C'mon man.

re: 'for political bs this horrendous act brings up see next post' [stanley seigler]

@Inderjit'...You should remember the priesedent is the one who has divided this country...

for sure, for sure...and WHY...

thunk b/c he is black and racists organized to hate BO...then GOP leaders, who know (should know) better used this baser human nature to win elections with lil concern for dividing our country...

an early example of this GOP dividing tactic was/is the willie horton ads...which was code for black men are going to rape all the lil white girls.

(btw lee atwater, on his death bed, apologized for this ad.)

LBJ recognized this GOP dividing tactic when he agreed with conventional wisdom that by advocating for civil rights and signing civil rights legislation he (the DEMs) lost my beloved South for decades.

butbutt, love what LBJ told his friend and mentor, richard russel (ga sen): 'dick get in my way on this (civil rights) legislation and i'll run over you' (something like that)

So you're saying that the following quotes aren't attributable to the people who said them?

I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous - Bachman
Lets put rat poison in Justice Stevens creme brulee - Coultier
I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - Limbaugh
Head shots, head shots... Kill the sons of bitches - Liddy
The second violent American revolution is just about that far away - Limbaugh again.

Seriously? I mean you're certainly welcome to give up. The less of you people lying to the community the better, but I'm stunned that you'd go so low as to deny that the people that said those things said them.

You're a perfect example of what has gone wrong with the right. It's too bad, some fiscal responsibility would be useful now. Hysterical hyperbole, hate and fear mongering of minorities, lies and rhetoric and fallacy are the only thing the right produces anymore. And unlike you I have references. Keep on praying, it worked out great for the Sikhs in Wisconsin. And seriously consider beating your head on the bricks. Who knows, maybe you'll knock some sense into yourself.

@phonograf: '...if you believe the "quotes" that you cite came from Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, Bachmann, etc., you are too far gone.'

difficult to vet most quotes these days when BO-haters actually believe BO is muslin born in kenya...however the quotes are typical of limbo-etal types...and are referenced by reliable sources (eg, wikipedia)...sadly;

all too many take these facetious, too cute by 1/2, hate filled, comments by limbo-etals; which pander to a person's baser emotions for the purpose of increasing their audiences (or wining elections) can and do have violent, negative, effects.

GOPs who know better do nothing to counter the dumb-a comments...actually, by their silence, encourage them...

You don't believe the quotes? Then let's verify them, phobograf:
Here's Bachmans quote: http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0309/Bachmann_urges_armed_revolt_over_climate_plan.html
Here's Coulter's quote: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183006,00.html (she also wrote in one book regarding Clinton "Otherwise there would be debates only about whether to impeach or assassinate.")
On Limbaugh quote 1: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,163548,00.html
On Liddy's quote: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2505
On Limbaugh quote 2: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1316

Peter, Your comment is so inappropriate and misinformed I'm actually going to leave it up so other people can see it.

@Shawn Drury: '...comment is so inappropriate and misinformed I'm actually going to leave it up so other people can see it.'

good idea...ditto for other dumb-a comments...believe they show us how uninformed and intolerant some people are...not the originator's purpose but their comments are most telling as to his/her prejudices...

They should reinstate my comment. You're a terrible person Pete.

You're a disingenuous liar for one. You offer support to terrorists for another.

May be the guys relatives were in the Boeing they blowup!
I stated it could be his motive.

These statements together show you are a disingenuous liar. You offering an impossible motive as justification to a terrorist act is support of that act. DIAF.

Yeah, I do. He's a white supremacist terrorist. And you think he's justified killing innocent people (in all likelihood, like infinitely impossible to one) that have nothing to do with a terrorist act by a few scumbags in 1985.

I never defended or supported terrorists or terrorism regardless of the cause. That was you. That you support white terrorists and condemn brown terrorists makes you the worst kind of hypocrite.

No Americans were on Air India 182 and none of the baggage handlers at Narita in the second bombing were American, which is the only Sikh terrorism that I can think of. Not that facts mean anything to you.

Peaceful Sikhs are all over in the news.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2184247/Sikh-temple-shooting-Wisconsin-Peaceful-religion-targeted-confused-9-11-terrorists.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2184247/Sikh-temple-shooting-Wisconsin-Peaceful-religion-targeted-confused-9-11-terrorists.html

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/19202031/2012/08/06/a-call-for-peace-after-shooting-rocks-sikh-community

Prove that the Sikhs are not a peaceful religion when not trying to gain their freedom from an oppressive regime.

That was the Babbar Khalsa - militant group, equivalent of the David Cult in Texas. Just like the David dudes weren't representative of Christianity, neither was the Babbar Khalsa representative of the Sikhs. And *not one* of those aboard that flight were American, either, petey - think you need to give up on the scare tactics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

@Peter Man: '...they [sikhs] carry swords or large knives...'

how many sikhs do you know carry big knives...the current indian prime minister is a sikh...i have not seen a pic of him carrying a sword...and none of the sikhs i know carry swords...oh/and does the SC gov's parents carry swords...

your statement seems ridiculous...dont you think...

you must be smarter than your opine of sikhs indicates...you need to re-evaluate your opine if all it's is based on are anecdotes...

an uneducated individual could draw similar conclusion re christians/catholics based on the crusades and the spanish inquisition...

to repeat:

'The essence of Sikh teaching is summed up in these words: "Realization of Truth is higher than all else. Higher still is truthful living". Sikh teaching emphasizes the principle of equality of all humans and rejects discrimination on the basis of caste, creed, and gender.'...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism

Reading your comments here, petey, and ... i'm not making this up .... i keep seeing those old Indiana Jones movies in my mind!

And the "sword" you mention is the Khanda - it's the equivalent of a butterknife used to access the pudding that's part of their daily religious ceremonies.

To claim its a carried weapon is like saying Christians can stab people with the crucifix on their necklace.

Tell me why you need to fear the Russians? Have you still got that cold war mentality? My facts are based on knowledge [on Sikhism] yours are obvious are not. What facts have I distorted? Have you read their books? People think Muslims are violent. Its obvious people need to learn a lot about this sect. I suppose person who stick out and says the truth are the culprit. Truth is when lot of people get together and say the same thing and repeat the lies. Read the book before you make comment. Its not peace loving people who go around blowing up planes and assassinate PM and then they are made into big heroes.

@Peter Man: '...The people who don’t know much about the violent sect need to revaluate...'

i will re-evaluate...one can always learn...eg, i did not know the khanda was used in sikh religious services (thanks reg)

my current knowledge of sikhism is from working with sikhs in the indian army during the congo conflict (circa 1960); working with them in an international engineering/construction firm (circa 1974-96); and a few turbaned sikhs in my current neighborhood...and of course goggling.

which books should i read to help with my re-evaluation...oh, which books has peterman read that lead to his conclusions...oh/and;

asked/not answered: 'how many sikhs do you know carry big knives...' for that matter how many sikhs do you know?

i dont recall any sikhs carrying big knives...however some do carry a kirpan...a small ceremonial knife. It is normally worn under clothes and most people would be unaware a person was carrying one.

peterman's opine this religious practice indicates sikhs are a violent sect is baseless...reg's comparison to christians wearing a cross is more appropriate.

in any event i will re-evaluate...suggest we all do...

Trumpp's translations were examples of "bigotry and hatred," petey - he often overlooked common words, removed or added characters from them, and made them read the way he wanted them to read. He was quite obnoxious to the Sikhs when in India working on the translations, and would try to incite them to anger (he would interrupt their services, smoke cigars in their facilities even though their religion forbids tobacco). When it didn't work, he gave up - never completed the full translations, and wrote his own version of it all. Also, let me repeat that the sword you mention - its used in their religious services to access the equivalent of a Christian communion.

Peter Man: '...May I ask for what religious purposes Khanda...'

you may...i should have questioned reg's comment: 'the Khanda - it's the equivalent of a butterknife used to access the pudding that's part of their daily religious ceremonies...' seems it was a factious comment...but;

not sure your or my comment is relevant to whether/not sikhism is a violent sect
re: The Kirpan means sword not a ceremonial knife for protection.

The kirpan is a ceremonial sword or dagger...The word Kirpan has two roots...which together stands for the dignity and honor of compassion, kindness and mercy...hardly indicative of a violent sect...

re: Formers are very decent responsible wonderful people latter are violent and rude...

you seem to be reasonably knowledgeable re sikhism...but you do sikhs a disservice by lumping all in with a baser element...it's similar to lumping all T-GOPs in with the KKK...why would you do this...it reeks of prejudice...

again asking how many sikhs do you know...

re: I [peterman] have no more to say on this subject.

originally you should have had nothing to say if you were going to spred hatred...with misinformation.

what the hell is your motive...there is more than enough hatred...

"he used Sikhs own documents" - he *translated* those documents. To his own liking, too. That's the point I'm making ...i have no need to reply to your other statements in that comment because you're repeating the same things over and over, and indicate poor perception on your part.

re: I [peterman] have no more to say on this subject...

weel guess there are two peterman's out there...one with no more to say...and the other that goes on and on and on...attempting for some, gawd only knows, reason to wrongly paint sikhism as a violent sect...

re: I don’t believe the christen churches or the country praise KKK or murders. Sikh has turned the murder of Air India Flight 182 killing 329 innocent people into heroes [the other pm]

and i dont believe main stream sikhs turned those responsible for flt 182 into heroes...anymore than main stream christians turn christian KKK idiots into heroes

Have you established the motive of this guy why he went in the Temple and killed innocent people? Let me know when you find out the motive. What you seem to be suggesting we should not ask questions as to why he did it? Your concern is more to protect the violent nature in your community than trying to discuss the motive. No terrorism regardless of religion or colour is justified. Two wrongs don’t make things right. We have the right in free society to ask questions. If that offend you and others it only shows your sect is very fragile.

Already posted it, that he's a POS white supremacist terrorist. And you continue to defend his actions as justifiable.

My concern is to shed light on YOUR violent nature as a defender of white supremacy and terrorism. You're trying to put the blame on the victims of this vicious act of terrorism.

I think it's cute that you are "accusing" me of being Sikh. Other members of the SC Taliban that post here "accused" me of being gay because I defended their right as Americans to marry. Great tactic. Add intellectually dishonest to your resume under fallacious and morally bankrupt. You people truly are awful.

@JoSCh: 'you won't STFU on the subject AND you've devolved this into a semantics discussion on the finer points of an obscure religion, do you recall what your point is?'

impossible to determine peterman's original point, if there was one...it may have been to blame the victims vice the shooter...kinda like the KKK blaming the blacks for being lynched.

OK so that's hyperbole and a reach...but (my opine) it's no more a reach than most of peterman's conclusions...and others have a similar opine...eg, 'Your [pm's] comment is so inappropriate and misinformed I'm actually going to leave it up so other people can see it.' (shawn drury)

ref peterman's original
*Peter Man: August 18 Sikhism sect or cult hardly has a history of being peaceful lot. May be the guys relatives were in the Boeing they blowup
*Shawn Drury: August 18 Peter, Your comment is so inappropriate and misinformed I'm actually going to leave it up so other people can see it.

re: [pm] devolved this into a [an irrelevant] semantics discussion...

this is the devolution of most discussions with 'true believers' and 'true haters'...ie, it eventually reaches a 'whatever' stage...why do i continue to get sucked into these exercises in futility.

Wow. I don't need to prove it, you've done it here. And you've attempted to prove that every act of terrorism ever committed was justifiable using the old elementary school logic of "they did it first". I disagree, but I'm glad you've reinforced my original assertion that you're an awful person.

You said "may be" the white supremacists relatives were on a 1985 flight that no Americans were on which was an attempt at justifying his actions and an attempt at vilifying the victims of this domestic terrorists acts. That was the first thing you said on this thread.

I have the right to oppose your support of terrorism and point out your many factual errors. I don't have to acknowledge your lame attempts at retracting the stupid things you've said or your contradictory statements. I don't forget or forgive bigotry, sorry.

What YOU said was YOUR attempt at justifying HIS actions. It's not a difficult concept. I don't understand why someone who came in trying so hard to vilify the innocent victims is trying so hard to distance yourself from the terrorist. I mean, you whole premise is that the terrorist may be related to some people that were victims of a terrorist act over 20 years ago. Who cares unless you were trying to justify his action? Own your bigotry, don't be a coward like Romney, Paul, and Akin. Own it!

There are a lot of things I could call you but I think deranged is the most apt. Seek help.

It's significantly more relevant than your posts. WTF is faculty power? I'm not a formal educator, although I have been schooling wingnuts lately.